Discussion:
Hello
(too old to reply)
Jacob Bettany
2003-10-05 22:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Are there any members on this list? I just joined but the list seems bereft
of messages, or I'm missing something anyway. Whatever, I hope all is well.
I'm supposed to offer a short introduction I think. I'm not too good at them
but here goes:

I feel like I'm sending a message in a bottle

Well, I'm a straight male, 29 and I live in Bristol. I've been thinking
about polyamory for a long time, almost the whole course of my 4 year
marriage which ended in January. If I'm honest, something in me was amazed
and fascinated when I stumbled upon alt.polyamory. Simply the idea that
there could be a whole community (an ethos) which I hadn't ever
encountered - or even imagined - made quite an impact on me. But there was
more to it because reading the faqs resonated in some way, as if I'd found a
word I had been looking for for a long time.

I thought that the theory was all very well. I thought that probably I
wasn't psychologically suited to it, that I was too jealous, unstable,
damaged or otherwise inclined to delerious episodes. I thought for a while
that perhaps it would just be too difficult, socially I mean, to adapt. I
thought there probably weren't that many poly people around and that those
there were I wouldn't be attractive (or attracted) to. I thought that
perhaps that didn't matter, that I could just treat it like a worldview,
simply integrate it into mine. I thought that I would wait.

I kind of brought the subject up with my friends. Here's something
interesting, alternative models for relationships. I've had various
responses ranging from wide-eyed horror to a kind of sympathetic
dissapproval, some curiosity perhaps but not much more. It wasn't very
encouraging anyway and the fact that I was treating it rather like an
intellectual exercise probably didn't help.

As it was, fascination gave way to a long pondering and time passed.

My marriage ended and suddenly I was free again. I don't mean that to sound
quite so clinical or harsh but in simple terms it was true. Never mind all
the anguish and infidelity, that's another story.

Freedom brought with it with a real sense of possibility. I could go to my
favourite bars and seriously consider whether I wanted person x or person y
to be a friend. I could choose what to do with my time, who I wanted to
spend it with. And of course there were relationships. I knew I was (am)
still recovering from my marriage, and I knew that probably the best thing
for me to do was give myself a break, but I felt as though I'd been thrown
from a catapult (thrown myself) and I was quite caught out by my own
momentum. I've been incredibly interested in relationships. All sorts of
relationships, new ones, old ones, friendships, rivalrys, politics and
people. It's been really remarkable now I think of it but I'm coming to a
bit of a junction really, I need to make some decisons.

It was strange to begin with, coming out of a marriage, I felt relatively
unsophisticated when it came to relationships, uneasy with myself and with
expectations. Because I'd been a primary carer before, the thought of anyone
relying on me has been quite terrifying and that's impacted a lot on the way
that I've been I think. I've certainly been promiscuous but determined that
I would be as honest as I could be with my partners. I've been honest, to a
degree I didn't think I could be. I've been involved in multiple
relationships but not to the point where I've been able to be honest with
each of my individual partners about the others. It's been incredibly
frustrating in a lot of ways because I'm still fighting with myself of
course, it would be so easy to just call myself a bastard and be done with
it, but it's not that really. I found the quote yesterday at
http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/Poly/ptheory.html#reasons

"My primary focus is on connecting with people, not on satisfying various
needs of mine (other than the need to connect with people). Polyamory gives
me more ways of connecting to people and that's why it's right for me."

I care about my partners but because of that, I can't bear the idea of
hurting them with my inability to commit - or whatever it is. I end the
relationships because I'm afraid the fact I feel so complicated about it all
isn't what they want.

What do I want?

I want the connections. I want to find a true love, a primary who
understands me, who I understand. I want to have children. I want to feel
that I'm being honest. I want to the people I'm with to understand me. I
want to see the world in an open way, not through the windows of this
relationship or that relationship.

So I'm thinking I need to connect with people who might feel similarly. I'm
thinking of being open with one of my recent partners to try to place myself
in a poly-context with her (is that like 'coming out'?) and of course, I'm
terribly afraid of the reactions I will get from people if I try and explain
all this. In a way it solves questions if you can say, I'm this way and a
person reacts against you so strongly, you know that relationship's not
right. But what if none of them are right?

So anyway, I am sending a message in a bottle.

Best wishes

J.
SaintMary
2003-10-06 08:26:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:51:29 +0100, "Jacob Bettany"
Post by Jacob Bettany
Are there any members on this list? I just joined but the list seems bereft
of messages, or I'm missing something anyway. Whatever, I hope all is well.
I'm supposed to offer a short introduction I think. I'm not too good at them
I feel like I'm sending a message in a bottle
Well, I'm a straight male, 29 and I live in Bristol.
[snip interesting intro]

Hello Jacob,

I joined this list a while ago, and have generally just lurked. I
'came out' as poly, at least to some of the people in my life, about 3
- 4 months ago, and I can certainly identify with much of what you say
in your intro.

I'm a straight female, 30 and I live in Manchester.

I have a primary partner, a fiance in fact, but have recently become
involved with a secondary whilst also having 'fun' with various
friends of mine. At first it was all so confusing, and the last few
months have been a real learning curve for me, but now I think i'm
happier than i've ever been in my life.

If you want some reading to direct your thinking on the subject I'll
recommend to you the book that was recommended to me and really
helped... "The Ethical Slut" by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.
I've since read other things, but that book was the one I found most
useful in helping me get my head around things.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

Mary x
--
AFPSaintMary
AFPfiancee to Stuart Quinn-Harvie
Now officially his fiancee in real life - aren't I lucky?
Jacob Bettany
2003-10-07 20:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Hi there,

Thank you so much for your message, I really appreciate it.

It's been a funny couple of days since I posted that last message and I've
had time to think a bit more. It's such a difficult question, what you tell
people, how they will react. It's not even as if I think my friends have
particular expectations of me, it more general then that, I'm afraid of
offending people's sensibilities in some way. Anyway, I did tell the person
I was going to. It wasn't a particularly clear or coherent mail, but I did
tell them - and I haven't had a response yet, which to be fair might simply
be because they haven't checked their mail.

What did I tell them?

I told them that I was thinking along these lines and that I wanted to be as
honest as I could be about where I was coming from. If where I am coming
from is a somewhat confused mish-mash of thoughts and ideas then I can't
really go much further than that. I've never been very principled, not in
the sense of the finding an idea and sticking to it, but I do feel that
polyamory describes the world and the way I feel very well. It's not
doctrinaire or systematic, it remains open to new possibilities, in a way
that seems to me to be very fundamental.

The challenge I have is describing this in a way that people can understand
and if not sympathise with then at least grapple with seriously. I do have a
question though. It will be easy to tell most people I meet for the first
time but what about she who I would most like to be primary? It's not even
as if I'm in with a chance now so really I have nothing to lose... and
yet... she is my friend, I want to tell her, I've survived quite well as her
friend but I'm such a tart, I've spent so much time apologising for being
innappropriate, she really doesn't fancy me, but I'm terrified.

And that's all mixed up I know.

What am I trying to say?

How do you tell people you really don't want to lose that you have a
particular attitude or tendancy which is 'alternative' - for want of a
better word? Part of me is sayiing, well just don't, do what you have to do,
defend the status quo (the role of elder siblings, I understand), let things
happen and be honest if and when you can. Is that the best way?

I'm blathering into space. It's so odd saying these things and not knowing
who's listening.

Best

J
Post by SaintMary
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:51:29 +0100, "Jacob Bettany"
Post by Jacob Bettany
Are there any members on this list? I just joined but the list seems bereft
of messages, or I'm missing something anyway. Whatever, I hope all is well.
I'm supposed to offer a short introduction I think. I'm not too good at them
I feel like I'm sending a message in a bottle
Well, I'm a straight male, 29 and I live in Bristol.
[snip interesting intro]
Hello Jacob,
I joined this list a while ago, and have generally just lurked. I
'came out' as poly, at least to some of the people in my life, about 3
- 4 months ago, and I can certainly identify with much of what you say
in your intro.
I'm a straight female, 30 and I live in Manchester.
I have a primary partner, a fiance in fact, but have recently become
involved with a secondary whilst also having 'fun' with various
friends of mine. At first it was all so confusing, and the last few
months have been a real learning curve for me, but now I think i'm
happier than i've ever been in my life.
If you want some reading to direct your thinking on the subject I'll
recommend to you the book that was recommended to me and really
helped... "The Ethical Slut" by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.
I've since read other things, but that book was the one I found most
useful in helping me get my head around things.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Mary x
--
AFPSaintMary
AFPfiancee to Stuart Quinn-Harvie
Now officially his fiancee in real life - aren't I lucky?
Zith(Gillian Howe)
2003-10-08 12:28:42 UTC
Permalink
While slithering after a fast, jucy mouse, I was astonished to hear
Post by Jacob Bettany
Hi there,
hello welcome to our little bit of heven
Post by Jacob Bettany
Thank you so much for your message, I really appreciate it.
It's been a funny couple of days since I posted that last message and I've
had time to think a bit more. It's such a difficult question, what you tell
people, how they will react. It's not even as if I think my friends have
particular expectations of me, it more general then that, I'm afraid of
offending people's sensibilities in some way. Anyway, I did tell the person
I was going to. It wasn't a particularly clear or coherent mail, but I did
tell them - and I haven't had a response yet, which to be fair might simply
be because they haven't checked their mail.
hope you get a response even if its just well i dont like it but i
will try and understand at least its better than no reply
Post by Jacob Bettany
What did I tell them?
I told them that I was thinking along these lines and that I wanted to be as
honest as I could be about where I was coming from. If where I am coming
from is a somewhat confused mish-mash of thoughts and ideas then I can't
really go much further than that. I've never been very principled, not in
the sense of the finding an idea and sticking to it, but I do feel that
polyamory describes the world and the way I feel very well. It's not
doctrinaire or systematic, it remains open to new possibilities, in a way
that seems to me to be very fundamental.
sounds honest
Post by Jacob Bettany
The challenge I have is describing this in a way that people can understand
and if not sympathise with then at least grapple with seriously. I do have a
question though. It will be easy to tell most people I meet for the first
time but what about she who I would most like to be primary? It's not even
as if I'm in with a chance now so really I have nothing to lose... and
yet... she is my friend, I want to tell her, I've survived quite well as her
friend but I'm such a tart, I've spent so much time apologising for being
innappropriate, she really doesn't fancy me, but I'm terrified.
gah its never easy to tell anyone your poly thay have a thousand
quesions to ask and some are innaproprate
Post by Jacob Bettany
And that's all mixed up I know.
its a mixed up world honi love is never easy
Post by Jacob Bettany
What am I trying to say?
How do you tell people you really don't want to lose that you have a
particular attitude or tendancy which is 'alternative' - for want of a
better word? Part of me is sayiing, well just don't, do what you have to do,
defend the status quo (the role of elder siblings, I understand), let things
happen and be honest if and when you can. Is that the best way?
well try sitting them down and saying I want to stay your freind but
theres something you need to know you may not like it but I need
you to know I will always feel this way about you if you dont feel the
same at least you understand
Post by Jacob Bettany
I'm blathering into space. It's so odd saying these things and not knowing
who's listening.
I am listning I hear your voice
i know how you feel and i understand how terrifing it can be to try
and make other people understand you so full of love that you want to
share it all the best gilly
Post by Jacob Bettany
Best
J
Post by SaintMary
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:51:29 +0100, "Jacob Bettany"
Post by Jacob Bettany
Are there any members on this list? I just joined but the list seems
bereft
Post by SaintMary
Post by Jacob Bettany
of messages, or I'm missing something anyway. Whatever, I hope all is
well.
Post by SaintMary
Post by Jacob Bettany
I'm supposed to offer a short introduction I think. I'm not too good at
them
Post by SaintMary
Post by Jacob Bettany
I feel like I'm sending a message in a bottle
Well, I'm a straight male, 29 and I live in Bristol.
[snip interesting intro]
Hello Jacob,
I joined this list a while ago, and have generally just lurked. I
'came out' as poly, at least to some of the people in my life, about 3
- 4 months ago, and I can certainly identify with much of what you say
in your intro.
I'm a straight female, 30 and I live in Manchester.
I have a primary partner, a fiance in fact, but have recently become
involved with a secondary whilst also having 'fun' with various
friends of mine. At first it was all so confusing, and the last few
months have been a real learning curve for me, but now I think i'm
happier than i've ever been in my life.
If you want some reading to direct your thinking on the subject I'll
recommend to you the book that was recommended to me and really
helped... "The Ethical Slut" by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.
I've since read other things, but that book was the one I found most
useful in helping me get my head around things.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Mary x
--
AFPSaintMary
AFPfiancee to Stuart Quinn-Harvie
Now officially his fiancee in real life - aren't I lucky?
--
Proud new owner of a hugaholic badge and t-shirt
gilly (is) GillyH (at) Gmx (dot) co (dot) uk
Zith(Gillian Howe)
2003-10-08 12:39:26 UTC
Permalink
While slithering after a fast, jucy mouse, I was astonished to hear
Post by Jacob Bettany
Hi there,
hello welcome to our little bit of heven
Post by Jacob Bettany
Thank you so much for your message, I really appreciate it.
It's been a funny couple of days since I posted that last message and I've
had time to think a bit more. It's such a difficult question, what you tell
people, how they will react. It's not even as if I think my friends have
particular expectations of me, it more general then that, I'm afraid of
offending people's sensibilities in some way. Anyway, I did tell the person
I was going to. It wasn't a particularly clear or coherent mail, but I did
tell them - and I haven't had a response yet, which to be fair might simply
be because they haven't checked their mail.
well I hope you get a reply even if it just says i dont understand
because no reply is just rude
Post by Jacob Bettany
What did I tell them?
I told them that I was thinking along these lines and that I wanted to be as
honest as I could be about where I was coming from. If where I am coming
from is a somewhat confused mish-mash of thoughts and ideas then I can't
really go much further than that. I've never been very principled, not in
the sense of the finding an idea and sticking to it, but I do feel that
polyamory describes the world and the way I feel very well. It's not
doctrinaire or systematic, it remains open to new possibilities, in a way
that seems to me to be very fundamental.
sounds honest
Post by Jacob Bettany
The challenge I have is describing this in a way that people can understand
and if not sympathise with then at least grapple with seriously. I do have a
question though. It will be easy to tell most people I meet for the first
time but what about she who I would most like to be primary? It's not even
as if I'm in with a chance now so really I have nothing to lose... and
yet... she is my friend, I want to tell her, I've survived quite well as her
friend but I'm such a tart, I've spent so much time apologising for being
innappropriate, she really doesn't fancy me, but I'm terrified.
sounds like me i gave up saying sorry for who I am ands how i feel
about other people
Post by Jacob Bettany
And that's all mixed up I know.
sounds ok from here
Post by Jacob Bettany
What am I trying to say?
How do you tell people you really don't want to lose that you have a
particular attitude or tendancy which is 'alternative' - for want of a
better word? Part of me is sayiing, well just don't, do what you have to do,
defend the status quo (the role of elder siblings, I understand), let things
happen and be honest if and when you can. Is that the best way?
honi just sit them down say you want to saty freinds but theres
something thay need to understand and you would like to be closer to
them and hope for the best because you still want to be freinds even
if nothing happens betwwen you both
Post by Jacob Bettany
I'm blathering into space. It's so odd saying these things and not knowing
who's listening.
I am listning i hear your voice I feel the hurt just so you know you
not alone here all the best honi

Gillyh
Post by Jacob Bettany
Best
J
Post by SaintMary
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:51:29 +0100, "Jacob Bettany"
Post by Jacob Bettany
Are there any members on this list? I just joined but the list seems
bereft
Post by SaintMary
Post by Jacob Bettany
of messages, or I'm missing something anyway. Whatever, I hope all is
well.
Post by SaintMary
Post by Jacob Bettany
I'm supposed to offer a short introduction I think. I'm not too good at
them
Post by SaintMary
Post by Jacob Bettany
I feel like I'm sending a message in a bottle
Well, I'm a straight male, 29 and I live in Bristol.
[snip interesting intro]
Hello Jacob,
I joined this list a while ago, and have generally just lurked. I
'came out' as poly, at least to some of the people in my life, about 3
- 4 months ago, and I can certainly identify with much of what you say
in your intro.
I'm a straight female, 30 and I live in Manchester.
I have a primary partner, a fiance in fact, but have recently become
involved with a secondary whilst also having 'fun' with various
friends of mine. At first it was all so confusing, and the last few
months have been a real learning curve for me, but now I think i'm
happier than i've ever been in my life.
If you want some reading to direct your thinking on the subject I'll
recommend to you the book that was recommended to me and really
helped... "The Ethical Slut" by Dossie Easton and Catherine A. Liszt.
I've since read other things, but that book was the one I found most
useful in helping me get my head around things.
Hope this helps, and good luck!
Mary x
--
AFPSaintMary
AFPfiancee to Stuart Quinn-Harvie
Now officially his fiancee in real life - aren't I lucky?
--
Proud new owner of a hugaholic badge and t-shirt
gilly (is) GillyH (at) Gmx (dot) co (dot) uk
SaintMary
2003-10-10 11:01:44 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:13:49 +0100, "Jacob Bettany"
Post by Jacob Bettany
Hi there,
Thank you so much for your message, I really appreciate it.
No problem, glad to be of help...

[snip]
Post by Jacob Bettany
What am I trying to say?
How do you tell people you really don't want to lose that you have a
particular attitude or tendancy which is 'alternative' - for want of a
better word? Part of me is sayiing, well just don't, do what you have to do,
defend the status quo (the role of elder siblings, I understand), let things
happen and be honest if and when you can. Is that the best way?
I'm blathering into space. It's so odd saying these things and not knowing
who's listening.
I think I have learnt that honesty really is the best policy with
nearest and dearest. It gives me an inner sense of peace to be open
with people, and I've found that true friends stand by me even if they
can't totally understand.

On the other hand i'm not saying you have to tell everyone. It's not
like I go into work and tell people their all about my sexuality, so
I'd hardly tell them my relationship set-up either. And there are
certain people in my life that I know would find it hard to handle,
like my Dad, so as there's really no need for him to know I simply
don't tell him.

I guess I'm trying to say that I would suggest telling the people
close to you who you feel you want to tell; taking that risk, because
if they are close to you i'm sure they'll do their best to understand.

As to how to tell people, i have started by using phrases like 'open
relationship' which is an expression people generally understand, or
at least are aware of, before introducing them to the concept of
polyamory (it's a word most people haven't heard of!) and the concept
of actually loving more than one person.
To go on to explain polyamory, I use this analogy: a parent with two
kids loves each child as much as a parent who has just one child does.
So, love is not a limited resource, and you really can love more than
one person without the individual people being loved any less.
The only limited resource is time.
I would also buy them a copy of the Ethical Slut so they can get their
head round different relationship styles in their own time at their
own pace, if it is a person who you really want to understand how
things are for you.

Above all, try not to react defensively when people ask questions, as
they undoubtedly will. I have found my friends have lots of questions
they want to ask, and sometimes don't phrase them in a tactful way,
but they don't mean it hurtfully, they are just genuinely struggling
with the whole concept. All you can do is try and answer in an honest
and open way about how it is for you, and how you feel, and don't be
afraid to admit you haven't worked out all the answers yet.

Hope that helps,

Mary x
--
AFPSaintMary
AFPfiancee to Stuart Quinn-Harvie
Now officially his fiancee in real life - aren't I lucky?
Trin
2003-10-19 19:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob Bettany
but I'm such a tart, I've spent so much time apologising
for being innappropriate, she really doesn't fancy me, but
I'm terrified.
If she's a _real_ friend (I know how I mean it, others may not define
"friend" in the same way I know) then istm that even if she doesn't
fancy you, then she'll already know how you feel about her anyway and be
wondering when you're gonna get a tuit for making a move?

Whether that move will be accepted or rebuffed is another matter
entirely, but ime real friends don't let things like lust ruin a
friendship. :)
Post by Jacob Bettany
How do you tell people you really don't want to lose that
you have a particular attitude or tendancy which is
'alternative' - for want of a better word?
Me? I just plunge straight in and try my damndest to explain it all as
best as I can. It doesn't always work and most people tend to do the
tuning out thang 'cause it's just not "normal" - but then most've my
friends tend not to be "normal" anyway and so that kinda helps matters.
--
Trin....... is both and neither.
When life hands you lemons - grab the salt & pass the tequila
http://www.mercianeclectics.dsl.pipex.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/tequilatrinity
Trin
2003-10-19 19:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Jacob Bettany articulated:

<snippages>
Post by Jacob Bettany
I care about my partners but because of that, I can't
bear the idea of hurting them with my inability to
commit - or whatever it is.
Surely it's up to them whether they can cope with your "inability to
commit" rather than for you to decide that it's going to hurt them
anyway?
Post by Jacob Bettany
I end the relationships because I'm afraid the fact I
feel so complicated about it all isn't what they want.
I thought relationships were meant to be complicated? If they're not,
can someone please tell me how to uncomplicate matters please. <g>
Post by Jacob Bettany
What do I want?
Only you can answer that one.
Post by Jacob Bettany
But what if none of them are right?
If you never try then you're never likely to find out...
Post by Jacob Bettany
So anyway, I am sending a message in a bottle.
G'luck with it all anyway. :)
--
Trin....... is both and neither.
When life hands you lemons - grab the salt & pass the tequila
http://www.mercianeclectics.dsl.pipex.com
http://www.livejournal.com/users/tequilatrinity
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